• bobmagebobmage
    Member

    Ret has some good utility for surviving, but is in last place to other plate wearing dps, and generally sucks in raids compared to other classes. Holy is still pretty good with healing, and prot can hold its own with tanking, why doesn’t ret at least get to play on the same field as arms warriors? In BGs/Arena ret isn’t even a viable option leaving only holy. Mages pretty much kill ret pallys at will, and ret has no hope of killing a healer one on one. Sad again with this patch. Ret needs some love from Blizz. Maybe not what they were in WOTLK (button mashing FTW), but a little closer to on par with other DPS would be nice.

    AbigoreAbigore
    Member

    @bobmage — My first 90 in MoP was my Paladin as I loved Ret previously, but I eventually became discouraged at the overall lack of DPS compared to other classes in similar gear. I eventually went back to my Warlock and used my Paladin as a healer, which is a change I don’t really regret, but I really wish Ret would have gotten some love in 5.2 for PVE.

    Thevagsoul
    Member

    Dude RET palas are awesome,and they did some awesome changes to the avenging wrath SO STFU!!!! RET PALAS RULE!!!!

    AbigoreAbigore
    Member

    @Thevagsoul — Amazing changes or not, their DPS is still pretty lackluster compared to the other plate DPS classes.

    Tanek
    Member

    @bobmage
    I’m just wondering how this is supposed to be beneficial to anyone. Complaining without any analysis is simply creating a negative atmosphere. If you’re upset about the class you play and would like to see improvements the official wow forums periodically request that kind of feedback. That is a location where your feedback (though they will want the analysis aspect as well) can be used to better the class as a whole.

    And just a side note because I saw it mentioned in your post. “ret has no hope of killing a healer one on one.” If you’ve experienced this it would be a lack of knowledge/ability not a lack within the class. Ret’s have some of the best burst out of all classes (perhaps to our overall detriment) and when played right can easily burst down a healer. If you’re looking for advice on how to not do bad dps then maybe try putting a little thought into your post and what you would like help on.

    ValendrasValendras
    Member

    ^ This
    Also, I noticed you said Holy is “pretty good”. To this, I say: you must be a shitty healer, as HPally’s are probably the best healers (Disc aside, as we all know they’re OP as hell). In Heroic MSV, Heroic HoF & ToT, I’m putting out 70-90k HPS & my gear is pretty bad My Paladin As for your concerns about Ret DPS, I would also like an analysis so I know what it is you’re complaining about. However, I have heard similar complaints & do believe there to be some legitimacy to them

    Woa
    Member

    We are not warriors, do not try to play like one. We are not Dks who just spam howling blast. We are better than both.

    MGShadow1989
    Member

    I think the issue is Ret dps is based on burst, making effective use of cooldowns, when they run out ret falls behind.
    Most other melee have much higher sustained damage, especially agility and dual-wield specs.
    I personally enjoy ret, has been my favourite melee spec and probably will be for a long time and I feel if you enjoy a spec you tend to put more effort into it.
    Something a simulator cannot simulate is enjoyment.

    ValendrasValendras
    Member

    Woa is right. If you wanna mash buttons, make a DK & be bad (that’s why DK’s are the favourite of the 12-15 year old age group)

    Rhoxx
    Member

    Hello, I could use some advice on this topic aswell,
    My burst damage actauly is very nice when all cd are popped , indeed sustaining the DPS is a other thing
    With my current gear as it is itemlvl 500 i can pull around 180 to 200 k dps on full cd blowout , then it drops back to 80 to 90 k on normal rotation depending on the boss fight it can drop lower sometimes!!!
    BUT what i hate most that no matter what i do Multible targets are really bad the aow on for instance Horridon really sucks
    Used the ret addon ctl retri on single target dps but ofcourse multible targets is diffrent story , GIVE INPUT HAHA ,
    How can i prevent the like 100k drop on dps single target and how can i get higher aow damage ?
    currentle trying the diffrence between the hammer and holy prism but neither achieve any real diffrence what matters neither switching in seals does , bassicly AOW sucks bigtime and so does single target DPS without CD,s

    @Abigore-If you open all your couldowns and have inquisition open then you acn deal 90k dmg to pvp.I once one-shoted a resto druid with the Guardian on.

    imapallywoot
    Member

    False. I’m holding my own, and occasionally breaking even with a Demo lock who’s got 5-6 ilvl on me (On Jin’rokh and Horridon). If you learn your class thoroughly, you can toss Noxxic’s DPS rankings out the damn window. I’m outdamaging a similarly geared (510 ilvl) Frost Mage (spec rank #2), an elemental shaman (#16), and keeping up with a beastly demonology warlock (#13) all on a measly Ret paladin (#21).

    The point being, if you know what you’re doing, you can be just as good as any other spec.

    As for Rhoxx’s comment… First, you should be using Execution Sentence for 1-2 targets, and Light’s Hammer for sustained AoE against 5+ targets. Holy Prism is not, as far as I have read, superior to either of the other two talents in any given situation. As for sustained AoE, I recommend using Sanctified Wrath, and essentially using your single target rotation with two differences: 1. Replace CS with HotR, and TV with DS. 2. Replace Execution Sentence with Light’s Hammer if there are 3+ targets that will stay in the area of effect for at least 7-8 seconds. Otherwise, use Execution Sentence on the target with the highest priority. Your observation of Retribution’s inherent bursty nature is accurate. Like you, I usually open up at 200k+ with all my cooldowns active, but that will inevitably fall off. I believe that Retribution needs some sort of “filler” ability to take up some of the 15% of our time we spend waiting for something to come off cooldown (Retribution has the lowest uptime, or time spent using abilities, of any DPS spec at about 86%, according to my SimCraft reports – this is not simply waiting on the GCD, which is included as uptime, but time spent using only autoattacks while all your core abilities are on cooldown or unavailable due to lack of Holy Power).

    Second, on Horridon I only pull 70-90k DPS during the first phase even with all my cooldowns active. But once the burn phase hits, I pop my shit and my DPS skyrockets to around 150k (I finished at 154k earlier tonight, dead even with that warlock I mentioned, and one of the most beastly Guardian druids in the game) On a fight like Jin’rokh where it’s essentially a straight burn, I can maintain over 120k DPS the entire fight (and I usually peak around 250k on initiate during lust).

    As for multiple targets, Ret pallies pull ahead on two targets, and can very easily beat out other classes on sustained AoE (Wind Lord Mel’jarak, for example). I can easily sustain 115-130k DPS on two targets just by using Glyph of Double Jeopardy and a macro for Judgment. For sustained AoE, Ret pallies are by no means behind – I can sustain over 200k DPS without a problem on Mel’jarak, and Glyph of Mass Exorcism is probably a 10-15% increase to your AoE sustain (if the tooltip seems lackluster, to clarify: it limits your Exorcism to melee range, but deals 25% of the damage taken by your initial target of your Exorcism to all other targets within 8 yards of that enemy, to match the range of your HotR and DS).

    To be an effective Ret paladin, you MUST be aware of the intricacies of your specialization as well as your set bonuses (i.e. T15 2-set – maximizing uptime on the Exorcism procs can easily give you a 5k dps boost if timed correctly, such as to coincide with the final tick of Execution Sentence).

    Note: I used the 522 ilvl DPS rankings, since our raid group is fast approaching that benchmark.

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